(Rev. Rick Joyner of Morningstar Ministries sent this response on March 12, 2009)
Lee, I think what you call "the Lakeland disaster" would be disputed by multitudes of people who got healed or touched there. If you are such judge of this what gives you the credentials? What moves of God have you led? What have you built? Paul the apostle claimed to have authority for building and for tearing down, but what gives you authority to tear down the work of others is having built something yourself.
I, Todd, Bill and Jack all know this is a very serious matter, and are treating it as such. I am deeply offended that you would call our work "a travesty." The Lord had far more grace for sinners than for the self-righteous, who He had no grace for at all. I am personally far more concerned for you than for Todd.
Lee, I love some of the things you write, but I also feel that some are straight from the mouth of the accuser. I do think you have done at least as much damage to the church as Todd's fall has by your unrighteous and unfair judgments. I don't think you have earned the credentials for it, and you're putting yourself in far more jeopardy by trying to be such a self-appointed judge.
I'm quite sure you will misunderstand what I'm saying, and I'm definitely not implying that we want to cover anything up, or promote cheap grace. We have just started the process and its being judged negatively. Give us some time, and some grace. Grace is, by the way, something we are supposed to be giving to each other.
If you care to follow this, Todd and I will be doing Video Special Bulleting each week that will be posted on our website, U-Tube, and carried by many others. These will be short, like the first, only about 10 minutes, but we want to cover the mistakes Todd has made, and as much as we can in the time we have, how he fell into some of the traps he did, strictly for helping others to not have to go through what Todd has. He will no doubt be doing a lot of public apologizing during this time because the public deserves these apologies.
I think you owe Todd, myself, Bill, and Jack apologies for your presumptuous judgments. I think they should be as public as this letter was. If not, I feel that I will have to address this publicly, and I don't think that is in your best interest.
I also think you need to come down and spend some time with Todd and me. If you have problems with someone we have Matt.18 as a guide to how we should deal with them. Read the first part of that chapter. This was given to help protect people from becoming stumbling blocks, which the Lord made quite clear was something we do not want to be. If you think being a journalist exempts you from complying with Scripture, I would like to know what philosophy you have bought into that trumps Scripture.
Sorry if this comes across as harsh. I don't mean for it too but I am quite busy and just don't have the time that I would like to maybe be a bit more tactful.
Wednesday, March 25, 2009
Charismatic Character Clash - Joyner/Bentley debate continues
By Polycarp
After ducking scrutiny that followed the Lakeland Revival’s abrupt end in August 2008, Todd Bentley resurfaced this month. The Canadian Pentecostal disappeared from the public eye in August after filing for separation from his wife. Issuing a statement through the pastor overseeing his restoration process, Bentley said he was “sorry for the hurt and confusion that my decisions have caused the body of Christ.” He indicated that he was pursuing a return to ministry in order to “fulfill God’s call on my life.”
Bentley fell even faster than he had climbed to prominence in 2008. He became a viral sensation during a healing revival that ran 100 consecutive nights and attracted 30,000 visitors per week. His renown spread with reports of his unusual healing tactics and claims that he had raised 25 people from the dead, all over the phone. But the Florida-based event could not survive Bentley’s divorce and mounting criticism. One critic, Charisma editor J. Lee Grady, faulted Bentley for sending the charismatic movement into a “tailspin.” He quoted an anonymous Pentecostal evangelist who said, “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the Antichrist when he shows up because they have no discernment.”
Grady said he groaned when he learned from the March 9 statement what Bentley had done since August. After divorcing his wife, Shonnah, he married Jessa Hasbrook, a former intern. The statement provided no update on Bentley’s ex-wife. Grady also found fault with how Bentley’s ministry was characterized by Rick Joyner, who once counseled Jim Bakker and has taken Bentley under his wing.
From Grady’s perspective, gifts trumped his character in Joyner’s decision to aid Bentley’s return to ministry. The ends seemed to justify the means. “From the time I first met him nearly ten years ago,” Joyner said of Bentley, “I knew that he had an extraordinary purpose and a gift of faith for the miraculous that would be desperately needed in these times.” He closed the statement with an appeal for funds to launch Fresh Fire USA, Bentley’s new ministry, now headquartered at Joyner’s church in South Carolina.
“As we have been constantly reminded, the Lord had great patience with sinners, but He had none for the self-righteous,” Joyner said, anticipating the inevitable criticism for his work with Bentley. “We’re all here because He had mercy on us, and we know we still need it. However, we also know that true repentance and restoration can only come if we refuse to compromise the clear biblical standards for morality and integrity.”
Joyner’s argument hardly placated Grady. “What is most deplorable about this latest installment in the Bentley scandal is the lack of true remorse,” Grady responded. He wondered how Bentley could accept responsibility for his share of the divorce and not repent of his decision to pursue the relationship with Hasbrook and marry her soon thereafter. And he asked why Bentley had not sought reconciliation with his first wife. Then Grady’s argument escalated.
“Many Christians today have rejected biblical discipline and adopted a sweet, spineless love that cannot correct,” Grady said. “Our grace is greasy. No matter what an offending brother does, we stroke him and pet him and nurse his wounds while we ignore the people he wounded. No matter how heinous his sin, we offer comforting platitudes because, after all, who are we to judge?”
Joyner and Grady’s exchange raises a host of questions about the nature of forgiveness and qualifications for ministry. Their public debate was intensely personal. Admitting he had no time for tact, Joyner took issue with Grady’s qualifications for judging. In so doing, he seemed to confirm Grady’s cause for concern about ends justifying means. “If you are such [a] judge of this what gives you the credentials?” Joyner asked Grady on March 12. “What moves of God have you led? What have you built?” He went so far as to allege that Grady’s judgment matched Bentley’s infidelity in the economy of sin.
Joyner’s indignation reflects a common misconception about judgment. Elsewhere he faults Grady for violating Matthew 18 and airing his concern publicly before going to Bentley personally. But this pattern for church discipline, taught by Jesus himself, presupposes that local church leaders will need to hold one another accountable to God’s standards. Similarly, Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 5:12, “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?” Christians must judge one another in this way to preserve the church’s moral witness and warn one another against sin.
But if church leaders will judge the body of Christ in order to protect it, they must be marked by godly character. And that’s exactly the standard for leadership that Paul lays out in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. As they represent God in positions of authority, overseers must demonstrate God’s communicable attributes, including love, patience, and fidelity. In a Christian of godly character, gifting such as knowledge, prophecy, or teaching brings glory to God alone. It does not exalt the gifted but the Gift Giver.
As Joyner suggests, King David’s example shows us that God can still do mighty things with great sinners. But does God want us to learn from David’s story that infidelity should be no impediment to ministry? God deposed other leaders, including Saul, when they had sinned against him. He spared David this fate because of the covenant he initiated to preserve the David kingdom forever (2 Sam. 7:14-16), culminating in Jesus. The outcome of David’s life warns us against learning the wrong lessons. David’s sin undermined his leadership permanently. His son Absalom rebelled and chased the king from the city of David (2 Sam. 15).
To be sure, God’s Word commands Christians to forgive, because God has forgiven them (Col. 3:13). But this forgiveness does not trump judgment as properly exercised in church discipline. And it cannot erase the temporal consequences of sin. Character, not gifting, is a leader’s most important asset. This is the means God has ordained to accomplish his ends
After ducking scrutiny that followed the Lakeland Revival’s abrupt end in August 2008, Todd Bentley resurfaced this month. The Canadian Pentecostal disappeared from the public eye in August after filing for separation from his wife. Issuing a statement through the pastor overseeing his restoration process, Bentley said he was “sorry for the hurt and confusion that my decisions have caused the body of Christ.” He indicated that he was pursuing a return to ministry in order to “fulfill God’s call on my life.”
Bentley fell even faster than he had climbed to prominence in 2008. He became a viral sensation during a healing revival that ran 100 consecutive nights and attracted 30,000 visitors per week. His renown spread with reports of his unusual healing tactics and claims that he had raised 25 people from the dead, all over the phone. But the Florida-based event could not survive Bentley’s divorce and mounting criticism. One critic, Charisma editor J. Lee Grady, faulted Bentley for sending the charismatic movement into a “tailspin.” He quoted an anonymous Pentecostal evangelist who said, “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the Antichrist when he shows up because they have no discernment.”
Grady said he groaned when he learned from the March 9 statement what Bentley had done since August. After divorcing his wife, Shonnah, he married Jessa Hasbrook, a former intern. The statement provided no update on Bentley’s ex-wife. Grady also found fault with how Bentley’s ministry was characterized by Rick Joyner, who once counseled Jim Bakker and has taken Bentley under his wing.
From Grady’s perspective, gifts trumped his character in Joyner’s decision to aid Bentley’s return to ministry. The ends seemed to justify the means. “From the time I first met him nearly ten years ago,” Joyner said of Bentley, “I knew that he had an extraordinary purpose and a gift of faith for the miraculous that would be desperately needed in these times.” He closed the statement with an appeal for funds to launch Fresh Fire USA, Bentley’s new ministry, now headquartered at Joyner’s church in South Carolina.
“As we have been constantly reminded, the Lord had great patience with sinners, but He had none for the self-righteous,” Joyner said, anticipating the inevitable criticism for his work with Bentley. “We’re all here because He had mercy on us, and we know we still need it. However, we also know that true repentance and restoration can only come if we refuse to compromise the clear biblical standards for morality and integrity.”
Joyner’s argument hardly placated Grady. “What is most deplorable about this latest installment in the Bentley scandal is the lack of true remorse,” Grady responded. He wondered how Bentley could accept responsibility for his share of the divorce and not repent of his decision to pursue the relationship with Hasbrook and marry her soon thereafter. And he asked why Bentley had not sought reconciliation with his first wife. Then Grady’s argument escalated.
“Many Christians today have rejected biblical discipline and adopted a sweet, spineless love that cannot correct,” Grady said. “Our grace is greasy. No matter what an offending brother does, we stroke him and pet him and nurse his wounds while we ignore the people he wounded. No matter how heinous his sin, we offer comforting platitudes because, after all, who are we to judge?”
Joyner and Grady’s exchange raises a host of questions about the nature of forgiveness and qualifications for ministry. Their public debate was intensely personal. Admitting he had no time for tact, Joyner took issue with Grady’s qualifications for judging. In so doing, he seemed to confirm Grady’s cause for concern about ends justifying means. “If you are such [a] judge of this what gives you the credentials?” Joyner asked Grady on March 12. “What moves of God have you led? What have you built?” He went so far as to allege that Grady’s judgment matched Bentley’s infidelity in the economy of sin.
Joyner’s indignation reflects a common misconception about judgment. Elsewhere he faults Grady for violating Matthew 18 and airing his concern publicly before going to Bentley personally. But this pattern for church discipline, taught by Jesus himself, presupposes that local church leaders will need to hold one another accountable to God’s standards. Similarly, Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 5:12, “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?” Christians must judge one another in this way to preserve the church’s moral witness and warn one another against sin.
But if church leaders will judge the body of Christ in order to protect it, they must be marked by godly character. And that’s exactly the standard for leadership that Paul lays out in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. As they represent God in positions of authority, overseers must demonstrate God’s communicable attributes, including love, patience, and fidelity. In a Christian of godly character, gifting such as knowledge, prophecy, or teaching brings glory to God alone. It does not exalt the gifted but the Gift Giver.
As Joyner suggests, King David’s example shows us that God can still do mighty things with great sinners. But does God want us to learn from David’s story that infidelity should be no impediment to ministry? God deposed other leaders, including Saul, when they had sinned against him. He spared David this fate because of the covenant he initiated to preserve the David kingdom forever (2 Sam. 7:14-16), culminating in Jesus. The outcome of David’s life warns us against learning the wrong lessons. David’s sin undermined his leadership permanently. His son Absalom rebelled and chased the king from the city of David (2 Sam. 15).
To be sure, God’s Word commands Christians to forgive, because God has forgiven them (Col. 3:13). But this forgiveness does not trump judgment as properly exercised in church discipline. And it cannot erase the temporal consequences of sin. Character, not gifting, is a leader’s most important asset. This is the means God has ordained to accomplish his ends
ENCOURAGEMENT
Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching (Hebrews 10:25 NIV).
God is redefining what it means to be a Christian today. Therefore, there is a commitment to teach biblical principles on kingdom living. Biblical truths are taught and practiced and traditional religious mind- sets are being broken. A major part of this emancipation is the emphasis on apostolic reformation of set ideologies and mentalities that have entrapped and conditioned our behavior for so long.
We live in a very individualistic society. So it sounds strange to be told that as the Day of Judgment draws near our greatest need would be to meet together on a regular basis. This text challenges us to forsake our self-reliance and solitude, and move towards others to bless and be blessed by them. Real Christian encouragement is a rear commodity these days, so God wants every one of us to be an encouragement, not a stumbling block.
The word en-courage means to “put courage into” or comfort. My prayer and desire is that the internal order of the operating system of our lives would be to “put courage into” and help those who are coming along. The greatest need in the life of every human being is to feel loved and appreciated. Let us remember to encourage and support one another the way God has used others to encourage and support us during different seasons in our Christian adventure. It works!!
God is redefining what it means to be a Christian today. Therefore, there is a commitment to teach biblical principles on kingdom living. Biblical truths are taught and practiced and traditional religious mind- sets are being broken. A major part of this emancipation is the emphasis on apostolic reformation of set ideologies and mentalities that have entrapped and conditioned our behavior for so long.
We live in a very individualistic society. So it sounds strange to be told that as the Day of Judgment draws near our greatest need would be to meet together on a regular basis. This text challenges us to forsake our self-reliance and solitude, and move towards others to bless and be blessed by them. Real Christian encouragement is a rear commodity these days, so God wants every one of us to be an encouragement, not a stumbling block.
The word en-courage means to “put courage into” or comfort. My prayer and desire is that the internal order of the operating system of our lives would be to “put courage into” and help those who are coming along. The greatest need in the life of every human being is to feel loved and appreciated. Let us remember to encourage and support one another the way God has used others to encourage and support us during different seasons in our Christian adventure. It works!!
God’s Blank Cheque Book
“I AM THAT I AM.”
Exodus 3:14
God gave Moses a blank cheque, and as life went forward for the next forty years, Moses kept filling in the blank cheque with his special need. He was ‘cashing on’ the revelation of God he got from the burning bush experience. He filled in fearlessness before Pharaoh. He filled in guidance across the Red Sea. He filled in manner for a whole population. He filled in water from the rock. He filled in divine protection through the wilderness. He filled in victory over Amalek and also filled in clear revelation at Sinai. And so Moses, for the rest of his earthly life, had little else to do than to take God’s blank cheque book signed by God’s name, I AM THAT I AM, and wrote in I AM guidance; I AM bread…etc. He presented the cheque and God honored it.
Dr.A.B. Simpson says that whenever a Christian comes to live upon God’s plan as Moses from that moment did, one can absolutely trust God for everything. And at the end of the journey declare like Joshua, “Not one thing has failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spoke concerning you” (Joshua 23:14). Let God be the “I AM” in your life today.
Exodus 3:14
God gave Moses a blank cheque, and as life went forward for the next forty years, Moses kept filling in the blank cheque with his special need. He was ‘cashing on’ the revelation of God he got from the burning bush experience. He filled in fearlessness before Pharaoh. He filled in guidance across the Red Sea. He filled in manner for a whole population. He filled in water from the rock. He filled in divine protection through the wilderness. He filled in victory over Amalek and also filled in clear revelation at Sinai. And so Moses, for the rest of his earthly life, had little else to do than to take God’s blank cheque book signed by God’s name, I AM THAT I AM, and wrote in I AM guidance; I AM bread…etc. He presented the cheque and God honored it.
Dr.A.B. Simpson says that whenever a Christian comes to live upon God’s plan as Moses from that moment did, one can absolutely trust God for everything. And at the end of the journey declare like Joshua, “Not one thing has failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spoke concerning you” (Joshua 23:14). Let God be the “I AM” in your life today.
Tuesday, March 3, 2009
The Presence Driven Life
God is doing some powerful things in His Church today. It is exciting to see proper order and structure come into His House. But we must constantly remember that the most important thing in the life of a local Church is not only order or structure. It is not having a large number of people,a good building, a big budget or a large Sunday school. The most important thing in the Church is the presence of the Lord. It is the presence of the Lord that God has promised to His House that will make the difference between a church that has life and a church that merely has the name of one who lives (Rev.3:1). It is the presence of the Lord, not our structure that will protect us in the day of storm (Isa 4:5-6). Nonetheless, it is important to have right structure,but structure in itself is like a body without breath ( 2Cor.3:5-6).
Moses realized the absolute necessity of being guided by the presence of the Lord. At one point God was angry with the idolatory of His people and told moses He was no longer going to journey with them in person,but that He would send His angel to lead them on. Moses was very emphatic at this point. He told God he was not going to accept a substitute. He did not want an angelic visitation;he wanted the presence of the Lord (Exo 32:34;33:15). Moses was no longer interested in programs for the sake of programs. He wanted nothing else if it would be a substitute for divine presence. Can we say the same for ourselves? Are we Performance-Driven or God-Driven? Certainly our structure will make a difference in the degree to which God is allowed to move among us,but God’s presence is primarily dependent on the condition of our hearts.
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